PDA

View Full Version : You have to read this, Am I crazy?


madkow
January 31st, 2006, 03:53 PM
Okay here's the setup.
Our one friend, "Zits", came in to the burgh for a weekend since his girlfriend's band was performing.
Our other friend "George" works for a local city paper and writes music reviews.
So a couple weeks after the show Zits asks for a copy of the review through me since he doesn't really know George. So here goes:

Zits:
wow, thats a pretty fucked review by our good buddy george. what a dick.

Me:
well, he calls it like he sees it. Thats why they call them critics... critical
I enjoyed it if that makes any difference.

Zits:
you see, the prblem here kyle (and this from a current editor and long-time journalist) is that you cant send someone UNQUALIFIED to wrote reviews. i was always begging my papers to let me review movies (and i have a minor in film and media from cmu) and theyd say i couldnt without the proper credentials. in the event i was allowed to write a review, if i couldnt write anything good then they wouldnt print it as they could get in trouble for a critical review from a non-certified writer. what credentials does george have to show he has music knowledge above any advacned audience? none. its really poor management on the part of his paper/editors. but it is especially fucked up that hed go to a friends show and write that stuff. in fact, he most likely did it because he's a dick and wanted to hurt me/my girl for kicking his ass in fantasy football. and i hope next time i see you you have him a around cause I WILL put my fist through his face for it. please forward this to him and also know that the band is looking into litigation against him and the front. there is legal precedent, believe it or not, to sue on the grounds of lible when you employ a writer to review a genre of art without proper credentials-- and as far as i can tell george probably when to CCAC. it could have been acceptable as an op-ed. thats where OPINION belongs, not is a music section where people will mistake the writer for someone with any knowledge of that art. ill say it again, what a dick. i am surprised you roll with that class of people.

Me:
woah hold your horses

First off its a shitty city paper with a circulation of under 100 is my guess

second off he went to PSU

third off you are taking this way to seriously

fourth you take this up with george not me, i did you favor so don't blast me

lastly, george can be stupid but he's not a dick. Well thats left for
judgement, but if you put your hand through his face for a shitty
review in a shitty paper that won't be around for much longer, you, I
and a bunch of other people are going to have a problem.

I like you zits and I'd like to keep it that way, but you need to
chill and not get upset over something so insignificant.
And if you do take the path of litigation I wouldn't expect much
because there is not much to get.

Zits:
yah doode, sorry. after a weekend of boarding i feel a bit more at peace and i apologize for railing into you, its not at all your fault. in fact, i invited your entire dlist so...

however, george is a big boy and wants to do big boy things like bring big negativity with his mighty pen (which is just a big no-no with me), so i do hope i see him again so i can take this up with him and when that happens i hope "you and a bunch of other people" allow him to continue to be a big boy and take his lumps like a man, alone. none of yo helped him write that so i dont see why youd need to help him defend himself. i know all about little twerps like that and why they write the way they do and they need to be dealt with and taught proper (i guess psu couldnt help him there but a cracked jaw will).

anyway, you guys should think about coming out easta bit further for some riding. VT or this place we just went to up in the Berkshires has pretty decent snow (i was surprised) and the farners almanac is calling for loads over average feb thru march. itd be good fun.

stay well

Me:
What exactly did you find negative?
Was it the reference to blaxploitation and GTA? I didn't find that
negative, actually thats what they sound like, some funk.
The flute and dancing being unnecessary? Whats wrong with that? Is
it that bad?
If anything there was more praise than criticism. He obviously
commended the horns for just picking up the arrangements. He said the
band was tight AND, i quote, "backup singer Evie Nagy and Morgan Fite
consistently outshined front woman Seskin". Um, thats true.

What the fuck is wrong with that. I could see if he dissed Morgan but
he actually gave her props.

Maybe I'm missing somehting. Maybe you were expecting a nice review
just because he's friends with us. Like you wanted him to
metaphorically suck the band's dick?
What did you expect? And that shit with litigation, you are out of
your fucking mind.

Look this is how I am. You fuck with my friends/family, you fuck with
me. Period.

Zits:
the problem here kyle is that george does not have the credentials or
qualifications to review music. i realize that the fact he was allowed
to write and publish his opinion in the form of an accredited review is
not his fault -- its the editor and publishers fault. hence the
litigation talk. it is text book lible, it would be an easy case to
win. luckily for them, the band cares less than i do. i get ramped up
because i am a journalist and i understand the unwritten code -- if
youre not qualified then YES, you kiss some ass and suck some dick if
youre going to try and pass off your opinion as anything else...
otherwise you dont write it.

the issue is compounded by the fact that george actually does know me
somewhat and should have been nicer, as far as pals go, to my girl and
her band. the revieve was in no way flatering -- likening a band to
video game is music is insulting to musicians not to mention it shows
his calous in music knowledge if all he can do is compare it to GTA.
your words "some funk" would have been simplier and played out nicer.

i know the exact kind of person george is now, just from that review.
people who are less secure in their ability tend to take a more cynical
approach and put people down so that when someone says "hey, this story
sucks" he can turn around and say "oh theyre just saying that cause i
wrote a bad review" when in fact he has no right even putting oen to
paper. i guess things are different here in the big city than out in
the small ountry towns, but that doesnt change the rules of ethics.
case in point, he wrote an even worse review about the first band...

lastly, i am surprised about your immature attitude of valor towards
you friends. i guess maybe youve known george for 15-20 years and so
you take offense to the fact that i am going to do him harm one day. an
easy retort to your mantra would be an eye for an eye. he hurt my girl
so ill hurt him. but its way beyond that. my problem lies with his
professional misuse of his journalistic powers as well as coming out
(unannounced i might add, also a courtesy he should have given to a
friends band) and writing such drivle. howd you like it if you sister
was in a play and we went out to support her and i wrote that the play
sucked and your sister was portly? ok, you might not be too pissed
because maybe you didnt like it too much either, but what if you got
home and found her crying on her bed? all she was trying to do was what
she loved and then you buddy, who knows zero about the theatre and had
no business being there came in and ripped her down? if that doesnt
define the word DICK then i dont know what world you live in.

anyway, thats all. theres no more to discuss. i work in this industry
and i know what this guy did was dick. so i am not going to sue him,
not going to call his editor and get him fired, not going to harrass
you anymore. but i will advise you that you would do well to keep him
out of my sight when next i visit the burgh is you love him so. cause
if i do see him the issue will get dealt with man to man, if nothing
else for my girls honor, and that you have to respect. if you or anyone
else choose to get in the way then that would be an ill-advised move
for you (ask jim for more on that) and i would really hate for it to
happen as this should not affect our friendship, so i hope you dont let
it.

Me:
OK, maybe you can explain something to me. I'm just curious and I
still don't get some things.

Where exactly do you get credentials to review anything, in this case
music. Does he have to be a musician? What about sports
reporters/reviewers, did they have to play the sport? I mean is there
some sort of certification class I need to go to? Can I get a degree
so that I am qualified to review anything? What exact credentials
are you talking about? Is their a class or something?
I think what you mean is that a paper will not let someone write a
review without some sort of experience. Because the readers will go,
"Who the fuck is this?". Is that it?

Second Libel is defined as such,in short:
"A false statement that negatively affects someone's reputation"
Um, so if George said the lead singer was a man and not a woman, that
would technically be slander/libel. I pretty much thought that if you
state your opinion it was protected under free speech. Maybe I'm
wrong. In no way did I find any of the information in the article
false. Actually I don't see what you are so excited about. He
didn't pan the band, he didn't say they sucked. Maybe it wasn't "Oh
this band is great I love them article", but he didn't say "They suck,
don't see them" either.

Can I ask, have you ever played GTA. The music he is referring to is
from a radio station in the game that played real music. I mean like
real funk from real funk bands. If you'd like a list of the
songs/bands I'm sure I can dig them up. Maybe not the best analogy
but many of us here got it. I guess us small country town folks are
not that dim.

You might call me immature, but in a previous email you said:
"I WILL put my fist through his face for it"
If thats not a threat I don't know what is. And I take offence to
someone threatening my friends.

I am also a little suprised by your elitist attitude since you live in
big bad NYC. Like we are all a bunch of hicks down here. From all of
us, thpbbbt. If we are a bunch of hicks what the fuck do you care
about a small time paper.

Zits:
youre a smart guy, or so you think. why dont you call up a paper and
tell them you want to be their music critic -- when they ask what
qualifies you for such an endeavor tell them you play video games. make
sure you tell them its real funk band music though...fucking dumbass,
stop wasting my time with irrational arguementation before i lose all
my respect for yinzers ;-)


Me:
Fair enuff. I've wasted enough time even responding to your baseless
arguments and irrational behavior. I though you were cooler than
that.

The End

Oh, here is the review by the way:
"Coming in from the New York/New Jersey metro area was the groove funk collective Blue Number Nine. Blue's sound falls between that of a soundtrack to a blaxploitation flick and Fever 105 on GTA: Vice City. Despite some disorganization: The door guy and the Merch guy did not make the trip. The horn section never played with the band before and was emailed the songs prior to the show to learn. One horn arrangement was even written the morning of the show. The band overcame adversity to play a good set, which was highlighted by originals "The Telephone Game," "Okay to Fight" and a funky version of CSN's "Love The One You're With." Frontwoman Stephanie Seskin's childhood instrument must have been the flute, being as she incorporated into her band. The flute along with the synchronized dancing at times felt unnecessary. The band played tight and backup singer Evie Nagy and Morgan Fite consistently outshined front woman Seskin. "



I know a long read and most of us have the attention span of a bug, but thanks for making it this far.

Opinons/thoughs/comments welcome

Jafo
February 1st, 2006, 08:47 AM
Umm wtf?

MrAustin
February 3rd, 2006, 06:53 PM
Who the hell is going to read through all that? Summarization is key!

BoneHead
February 3rd, 2006, 07:21 PM
I read the first two paragraphs and gave up.

SKooT
February 3rd, 2006, 08:25 PM
Ran it through the MS Word auto summarizer!

Okay here's the setup.
Our one friend, "Zits", came in to the burgh for a weekend since his girlfriend's band was performing.
Our other friend "George" works for a local city paper and writes music reviews.
So a couple weeks after the show Zits asks for a copy of the review through me since he doesn't really know George. So here goes:

Zits:
wow, thats a pretty faped review by our good buddy george. what a wang.

Me:
well, he calls it like he sees it. Thats why they call them critics... critical
I enjoyed it if that makes any difference.

in the event i was allowed to write a review, if i couldnt write anything good then they wouldnt print it as they could get in trouble for a critical review from a non-certified writer. what credentials does george have to show he has music knowledge above any advacned audience? i am surprised you roll with that class of people.

Well thats left for
judgement, but if you put your hand through his face for a crapty
review in a crapty paper that won't be around for much longer, you, I
and a bunch of other people are going to have a problem.

Zits:
yah doode, sorry. If anything there was more praise than criticism. Um, thats true.

Maybe you were expecting a nice review
just because he's friends with us. Like you wanted him to
metaphorically suck the band's wang?
You fap with my friends/family, you fap with
me. Zits:
the problem here kyle is that george does not have the credentials or
qualifications to review music. i get ramped up
because i am a journalist and i understand the unwritten code -- if
youre not qualified then YES, you kiss some ass and suck some wang if
youre going to try and pass off your opinion as anything else...
otherwise you dont write it.

the revieve was in no way flatering -- likening a band to
video game is music is insulting to musicians not to mention it shows
his calous in music knowledge if all he can do is compare it to GTA.
your words "some funk" would have been simplier and played out nicer.

i know the exact kind of person george is now, just from that review.
case in point, he wrote an even worse review about the first band...

lastly, i am surprised about your immature attitude of valor towards
you friends. anyway, thats all. cause
if i do see him the issue will get dealt with man to man, if nothing
else for my girls honor, and that you have to respect. Where exactly do you get credentials to review anything, in this case
music. I pretty much thought that if you
state your opinion it was protected under free speech. The music he is referring to is
from a radio station in the game that played real music. I mean like
real funk from real funk bands. If you'd like a list of the
songs/bands I'm sure I can dig them up. I guess us small country town folks are
not that dim.

If we are a bunch of hicks what the fap do you care
about a small time paper.

make
sure you tell them its real funk band music though...faping dumbass,
stop wasting my time with irrational arguementation before i lose all
my respect for yinzers ;-)

Oh, here is the review by the way:
"Coming in from the New York/New Jersey metro area was the groove funk collective Blue Number Nine. Blue's sound falls between that of a soundtrack to a blaxploitation flick and Fever 105 on GTA: Vice City. Despite some disorganization: The door guy and the Merch guy did not make the trip. The horn section never played with the band before and was emailed the songs prior to the show to learn. One horn arrangement was even written the morning of the show. The band overcame adversity to play a good set, which was highlighted by originals "The Telephone Game," "Okay to Fight" and a funky version of CSN's "Love The One You're With." Frontwoman Stephanie Seskin's childhood instrument must have been the flute, being as she incorporated into her band. The flute along with the synchronized dancing at times felt unnecessary. The band played tight and backup singer Evie Nagy and Morgan Fite consistently outshined front woman Seskin. "



I know a long read and most of us have the attention span of a bug, but thanks for making it this far.

Opinons/thoughs/comments welcome




;)

duke
February 3rd, 2006, 08:27 PM
still too long skoot i would run it througha few more times

SKooT
February 3rd, 2006, 08:30 PM
still too long skoot i would run it througha few more times

OK.

That was 25%... lets try... 10%

Our other friend "George" works for a local city paper and writes music reviews.
So here goes:

Zits:
wow, thats a pretty faped review by our good buddy george. what a wang.

what credentials does george have to show he has music knowledge above any advacned audience? Zits:
yah doode, sorry. If anything there was more praise than criticism. Um, thats true.

Maybe you were expecting a nice review
just because he's friends with us. Like you wanted him to
metaphorically suck the band's wang?
Zits:
the problem here kyle is that george does not have the credentials or
qualifications to review music. anyway, thats all. cause
if i do see him the issue will get dealt with man to man, if nothing
else for my girls honor, and that you have to respect. Where exactly do you get credentials to review anything, in this case
music. I mean like
real funk from real funk bands. If you'd like a list of the
songs/bands I'm sure I can dig them up. If we are a bunch of hicks what the fap do you care
about a small time paper.

The horn section never played with the band before and was emailed the songs prior to the show to learn. The band played tight and backup singer Evie Nagy and Morgan Fite consistently outshined front woman Seskin.

JJaX
February 3rd, 2006, 10:01 PM
I dont have time for this.

I will reply the truth once cliffnotes are provided.

maneatingcow
February 4th, 2006, 01:02 AM
Madkow, all I have to say is: Why do you hang around with such jackasses? And I am surprised you gave him so many tries to justify his pointless anger.

If you talk to him again, do me a favor and ask him where he got his credentials to put his fist through someone's face, since I've been looking for some local certification classes. Thanks in advance!

blinx
February 7th, 2006, 12:21 PM
hahaha nice sig mec

vman
February 10th, 2006, 12:17 PM
ummm..... ok?

blue9girl9
February 16th, 2006, 03:45 PM
This is Stefanie Seskin. I am the creator of blue number nine, the “front woman” mentioned in the article that got Zits all fired up. I found this blog thread today after googling my band’s name.

While I think Zits’ reaction is a little over the top, anyone who knows him knows that he a passionate guy. This is a good thing! Furthermore, he is correct, in a journalistic sense, about this review and it’s failure in terms of writing and presenting an accurate portrayal of what occurred at blue number nine’s show that night.

The review is not “negative” overall, just poorly written and uninformed. The reviewer does say “the band overcame adversity to play a good set” and “the band played tight.”

However, there is so much about this review that is just sloppy – in terms of “credentials”, the main credential is that a reviewer should know how to write! Also, and equally important, a reviewer must get his or her facts straight. A reviewer also should not misrepresent a band and write incorrect negative implications about a band. There is indeed one aspect of this article that is negative and potentially damaging.

DISCLAIMER – this is a long post, for one.

For two, I am not upset or disgruntled or angry or bitter about this review. All but one of the negative aspects of this review fall on the writer, and not on blue number nine. I do have some comments, however, since Zits got upset about it and never even told me about the article, even though we live a mile from each other! Plus, I very much enjoyed finding this, and I love to write, so here goes….

First of all, note how my name, Stefanie Seskin, is spelled with an “f” and not a “ph” as the reviewer in question spelled it. Also note that the band is spelled “blue number nine” and not with initial caps, as this reviewer wrote it. Rule #1 – spell names correctly!

Second, the songs the reviewer attempts to highlight are called “Telephone Game” (not “The Telephone Game”) and “Safe to Fight” (not “Okay to Fight”.)

Third, the singers who sang on that show are named Camari Frame and Morgan Fite, not Evie Nagy and Morgan Fite. Evie Nagy was home in Jersey City that night.

Fourth, the writer says, “Despite some disorganization: The door guy and the Merch guy did not make the trip. The horn section never played with the band before and was emailed the songs prior to the show to learn. One horn arrangement was even written the morning of the show.”

This section is the one negative aspect of this review. While it does go on to say the band prevailed despite adversity, why make it seem like there was disorganization? Surely, there were other things to write about!

A - The horn players, who are based out of Pittsburgh, received via mail, not email, sheet music and CD’s months in advance; they worked on the songs on their own. We do this often in many cities and it works out just fine. There is nothing “disorganized” about doing things this way. It is actually common for pros to do shows with bands without ever even having heard the music or seen the sheet music.

B - Yes, one horn chart was written that morning. There is nothing disorganized about this either. It’s called “inspiration”. Personally, I think it’s quite spectacular that a musician has the ability to do something like this (our bassist came up with the arrangement).

C - George wrote that "[t]he door guy and the Merch guy did not make the trip." blue number nine does not travel with a door guy or a merch guy. The reason why there wasn't someone at the door was because the booking person at the bar did not inform us that the band had to provide its own door person and thus we rightfully assumed that the bar would provide a door person as most bars do. I actually said something to that effect from the stage about the door guy, and the comment about the merch guy was an "in" joke... kind of like the one where the lead singers says, "The more you drink, the better we sound".

Zits is correct that the writer was painting blue number nine in a negative way on this account. We may be many things, but we are not disorganized! We are quite the opposite, in fact.

Fifth - Most soundtracks to “blaxploitation flicks” are made up of instrumental songs, not songs with vocals. They do, however, use wah-wah guitar, so perhaps this reviewer isn’t used to hearing wah-wah on a guitar and “blaxploitaiton flicks” was all he could reference; further, this example would have been more effective had the writer used the specific name an actual “blaxploitation flick”, and not compared the music to the music of a certain genre of film as a whole. Again, this is poor journalism, and that's what Zits was trying to say in his comments.

George said our music sounds like a video game. This merely tells me that George plays a lot of video games. He should have perhaps listened to some of the bands that we call our influences prior to reviewing us. (Brand New Heavies, Sly & the Family Stone, etc….) Again, he did not do his homework. Zits wrote that musicians would find such a comparison insulting. It's not insulting, it's just comparing apples to oranges.

To continue, sixth - This writer obviously isn’t used to seeing bands with backup singers. Backup vocalists commonly dance in sync. There are many concerts available on DVD displaying this, mostly in the R&B genre, but also in country, adult contemporary, and other styles. Again, George should do his homework if he wants to review concerts even as a hobby. Credential - do your homework.

Seventh – the writer stated, “…backup singers Evie Nagy and Morgan Fite consistently outshined front woman Seskin.” While I am upset that Camari’s name wasn’t mentioned, and she was on the gig, not Evie, I am NOT upset that this writer perceived this because it’s probably true about my performance that night.

You think so yourself, Madkow. I'm fine with that.

I’m a songwriter and a producer and a flute player. I sing because I write songs. I purposely seek out excellent back up vocalists who support me and make the songs sound their best. However, I’m not just a “front woman”. I’m the brains of the band, the creator of the band, I write all the lyrics and have written or co-written all of the songs. I wrote out some of the horn arrangements. I designed and update our website. I designed all of our CD artwork (except our first CD). I am the only person who has been in the band since the very beginning. I manage the band and I deal with the disorganized venues and all the difficult aspects of running a band while everyone else relaxes and drinks their beer. This writer clearly didn’t do his homework.

Eighth - The song "Love the One You're With" is not by Crosby, Stills, and Nash but by Stephen Stills. If George was referring to who originally performed that song he was still wrong as the song was performed by Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young and not Crosby, Stills, and Nash (before Young).

Out of 12 facts provided by the writer, 7 (58%) were either inaccurate or made up.

I do understand why this review upset Zits. Journalists are supposed to be knowledgeable on what they’re writing about.

Journalists also should not say damaging things that are untrue. This writer’s implication that blue number nine was “disorganized” that night is indeed negative and damaging. That night was our first gig in Pittsburgh. The venue where we performed was disorganized! I really hope that no other booking agent in Pittsburgh read this review and now thinks we’re disorganized.

Obviously, the writer simply didn’t like that band, and that’s fine. He should have just said that. Making things up and inaccurately providing facts should be unacceptable in any publication. It sure got James Frey into trouble!

To sum things up, Zits accurately assesses the flaws in this review, and while his critique may seem a little over the top, he is correct on two accounts: this writer didn’t do his homework, and writers are supposed to do homework; and this writer did portray blue number nine in a negative light by implying that we were disorganized that night when we are never disorganized and no club or booking agent has ever said this about us in the past.

Cheers,

Stefanie Seskin – intelligent, excellent and confident creator of one bad ass, tight, exciting, fun band based out of New Jersey that plays a mix of funk, rock, soul, pop, jazz & blues and never claimed to be a “funk band” – blue number nine.
http://www.bluenumbernine.com
http://myspace.com/bluenumbernine

blue9girl9
February 16th, 2006, 03:57 PM
p.s. You're not supposed to post private emails in a public forum like this. It's not polite and it's probably a really bad idea for other reasons, too.

Necrofeal
February 16th, 2006, 04:09 PM
Umm wtf? Thats right. read the first paragraph the rest started to put me to sleep. hope there is some one out there that reads it. Just for your sake.

duke
February 16th, 2006, 04:14 PM
First - Oh what the hell is this

C - I'm pretty sure he didn't post any emails

#73 - Lots of words ITT

To sum things up, got any sexy pics because GIS only has really small stuff and well this thread is just terrible and I think that would spice things up ok. :heart:

blue9girl9
February 16th, 2006, 04:34 PM
duke, if you want sexy pics, go to our website. there are a few.

this is a response to that Madkow's posting of Zits private emails to him and asking all your guys your opinion.

i stumbled onto this site.

it was good to find out about a review of my band.

even an inaccurate review.

too bad people don't read.

it's good for the brain.

Sheeyt
February 16th, 2006, 04:39 PM
WTF?!?!?! I'm sorry mommy!

blue9girl9 will you marry me?

blue9girl9
February 16th, 2006, 04:42 PM
mommy... whatever.

i read a lot. this is bad?

sound bytes are bad.

i feel like a monkey writing like this.

i'm outta here.

Sheeyt
February 16th, 2006, 04:43 PM
I read a lot too. Mostly political books that trash liberals and their crazy ideas. Can we get married now?

Casper
February 16th, 2006, 04:47 PM
What the hell happened here....

duke
February 16th, 2006, 04:48 PM
I don't know but it sure beats doing my homework.

Sheeyt
February 16th, 2006, 04:51 PM
Yea and it beats doing work, work.

JJaX
February 16th, 2006, 06:30 PM
One Time! I Fed My Snake Some Beer! He Was Slithering This Way And That!

DocHoliday78
February 21st, 2006, 08:38 PM
One Time! I Fed My Snake Some Beer! He Was Slithering This Way And That!


Fahkeeng Shieet mang!

jHawk
February 26th, 2006, 05:26 PM
your band sucks, and so does your webiste.

:D